'New Sheriff in Town'
Interview with Seneca-Cayuga chief

by Andrea Barrist Stern Saugerties Times  October 6, 2005

The Seneca-Cayuga tribe, whose proposal for a Las Vegas-style gambling resort at Winston Farm in Saugerties has met with vociferous opposition from a citizens' group and most Saugerties town officials - and has already prompted anti-casino resolutions in about half of Ulster County's towns - will not go where it is not wanted, the tribe's new chief, Paul Spicer, said in an exclusive interview with Saugerties Times this week.
Speaking by phone on Tuesday from his office at the tribe's headquarters in Miami, Oklahoma, Spicer, who was elected chief on July 30 following an earlier disputed tribal election in June, said his tribe is also "speaking with individuals in Cayuga County" in central New York about the feasibility of building a casino there.
"Ma'am, there is a new sheriff in town," said Spicer jokingly with a mellow lilt of Oklahoma timbre. "We are going to be honest and open and share as much information as we can. If you decide to accept us, that's great and if you don't, there won't be any hard feelings on anyone's part."
Spicer spoke with Saugerties Times after his predecessor, former Seneca-Cayuga chief Leroy Howard, had refused requests for an interview from this paper for months. Rochester-based developer Thomas Wilmot, who is backing the tribe, has also refused to speak this paper, although his spokesperson, Gwen Bellcourt, said he will do so in mid-November.
Spicer believes Howard may have alienated local officials and area residents last April at a meeting at the Saugerties town offices with his position that the tribe would have "sovereign immunity" from many potential impacts caused by the proposed casino. "That was a terrible thing for him to say and one of the things that got him defeated," said Spicer, a retired career serviceman with the Air Force and an entrepreneur who said he has become involved with tribal politics out of "love" for his people.
"The correct answer to that councilperson's question [about which casino-related costs the tribe would pick up beyond their annual payment to Ulster County] would have been, 'Of course we'll find a way to share.' That should have been the answer instead of, 'We're sovereign. Get it from the county.'"
Spicer believes that meeting with Saugerties town and village officials and local political leaders "was a turning point in [the tribe's] relationship with Ulster County. Said the chief, "We would like to renew the relationship we had at one time."
Spicer is "optimistic" the tribe can satisfy the community's concerns about such issues as the potential for increased crime and traffic, impacts to local school districts and businesses, and affordable housing for casino employees. "We would start at square one with the community and plan this thing out," he said. "It's not like [the community is] going to wake up one morning and there would be a massive infrastructure in place. It would all be worked out with the local zoning people and the local planning people."
The tribe would also be willing to cede "limited waivers" of sovereignty to local authorities as it has done with various authorities in Oklahoma, he said. "We work pretty much hand-in-hand with the local community here," he said. "It's not a 'we-and-they' mentality. It's an us mentality. If we combine our resources, we can all accomplish a lot more."
Spicer emphasized his tribe's experience with its moderately-sized casino in Oklahoma as well as several other tribal casinos in the same part of that state have driven economic development in that region. "One thing we bring is jobs, and not only with gaming," he said. "Once we put up a casino, a ton of other businesses will pop up, from mom and pop businesses to restaurants, construction companies, management companies, and car dealerships," he noted. "The tribes in this area [Oklahoma] have also put some money back into manufacturing and light industry, which is what I'm probably more interested in even though gaming is where the money is. If we prosper, everyone prospers. That has certainly been the case here."
In terms of environmental concerns, Spicer noted, "We are probably more concerned about environmental issues than the average person in Ulster County. Taking care of the earth is our responsibility. Different races feel different ways about different things. As a race, the environment is our thing."
In late April, John Kindt, a University of Illinois professor of business and legal policy and an authority on the social and economic impact of Indian casinos on surrounding communities, testified on this subject on Capitol Hill, where some Congressional lawmakers, including Senator John McCain (R-Arizona) are seeking to limit Native American off-reservation gaming operations. In an interview with Saugerties Times, Kindt said the local community could expect to spend $3 for every $1 it receives in benefits, see an increase in both white-collar and violent crime, and have the spending power and savings of local residents erode due to money lost at the casino.
"I never heard of the guy," said Spicer when asked about Kindt's findings. "I'm an old dog and I know how things work. I'd want to know what his agenda is and what his policies are."
The Seneca-Cayugas and Wilmot, who recently lost his bid in Bridgeport, Connecticut to back what would have been one of the largest casinos in the world, are proposing to build a Las Vegas-style, Class III casino with slot machines and table games, a 900-room hotel, two golf courses, and a 2,000-seat theater as well as a shopping mall, four fine dining restaurants and other food establishments, a show lounge, and meeting and convention space at the 840-acre Winston Farm in Saugerties, site of the 1994 Woodstock Festival anniversary concert. The projected 19,000 daily visitors to the casino would double the population of Saugerties. (Wilmot scaled this proposal down from his initial plan of a much larger resort with more retail and entertainment space, including a 20,000-seat arena, in response to community opposition.)
Spicer acknowledged this week that Wilmot "may be thinking a little bigger than is possible." Added the chief, referring to the developer's earlier proposal, "That doesn't sound like anything we'd be doing."
In June, Wilmot, head of the Rochester-based Wilmorite Property Management, LLC, increased his offer of money to the local community in return for its willingness to host the Seneca-Cayuga casino. His most recent proposal would allot $600 million to Saugerties and Ulster County to be paid in annual $30 million installments for 20 years. Wilmot proposed a breakdown of $2.8 million per year to the village, $12.2 million to the town, and $15 million to the county.
Why has the tribe targeted Ulster County? Spicer said the tribe is interested in Cayuga County but has done no feasibility studies although it already owns a 220-acre farm there.
The larger issue for the Seneca-Cayugas, he noted, is that "all of New York is the tribe's homeland." Said the chief, "We feel about New York the way the Jewish people feel about Israel. It is our home no matter how long we were forced to be away, and I use the word forced meaning forced. Not every Jewish person in America wants to emigrate to Israel but they want to be able to if they want to and that's kind of like the way we feel." Today, the tribe has some 4,000 members with slightly less than half of them living in the Miami, Oklahoma area, according to the chief.
Critics of Indian gaming operations have coined the term "reservation shopping" to describe the efforts of wealthy developers like Wilmot to piggyback on tribes - some of whom, like the Golden Hill Paugussetts in Connecticut on whom Wilmot has spent a reported $10 million, do not even have federal recognition. When it comes to reservation shopping, however, Spicer said, "We kind of felt that way about you all. We feel the Europeans were the original reservation shoppers."
At a public meeting sponsored by No Saugerties Casino on September 29, town officials from Ledyard and North Stonington, Connecticut, the towns that host Foxwoods Resort, the largest casino in the world, painted a grim picture of the impacts the casino has had on their communities. There have been no spin-off businesses other than a pawn shop and two donut shops; the casino has siphoned off the local labor force making it difficult for many businesses to continue operating; crime has increased as has traffic; and with the daily influx of gamblers, the local, once-rural communities near Foxwoods are facing issues similar to those faced by much larger cities, the Connecticut officials said.
Gambling addiction, according to a 1999 study by the federal government, doubles within a 50-mile radius to a casino. The presence of Foxwoods and the neighboring Mohegan Sun casino have led to an increase in bankruptcies and foreclosures, according to both municipal officials and a series of articles about gambling in The Hartford Courant by Jeff Benedict, an attorney and an investigative reporter. Three town officials have been convicted of embezzlement for spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of municipal funds at the two Connecticut casinos.
Spicer claimed the experience in Oklahoma has been markedly different. "This was a dying area," he said of Ottawa County, Oklahoma, where the Seneca-Cayuga tribe is based. The closing of a B. F. Goodrich plant in that area in the late 1980s thrust the region into a "nose dive" until several tribes began opening casinos. There are now four casinos operated by tribes in the Miami, Oklahoma area and another has been proposed nearby. In addition, the Seneca-Cayugas operate a medium-sized casino in neighboring Delaware County near the Ottawa County line, he said.
Spicer said the Miami, Oklahoma area has seen "no increase in crime" following the opening of the casinos there. "But, we are not Connecticut," he conceded. "Most of the people who come to the casinos have a nice meal, see a show, and stay overnight or go home. It's not like they lurk around waiting to mug someone in order to get money to put in the slot machines."
Spicer disagrees with Kindt and others that the presence of casinos leads to addictive gambling. He believes individuals who are "pathological gamblers" would turn to other potential addictions like alcohol or narcotics were gambling not available to them. "They have addictive personalities and would just find another venue," he said.
The Seneca-Cayugas are now considering adding a second casino in Oklahoma about a mile from the tribe's current gaming operation to double the total capacity. The Seneca-Cayugas are also planning to build a factory outlet mall nearby.
"A lot of these tribes out here have started spin-off businesses that add to the revenue stream," said Spicer. "It's amazing what an economic boom gaming has brought to our area." The Seneca-Cayuga's cigarette manufacturing plant is one such business. Spicer said he got the idea for the plant after hearing radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh describing a tribe with a similar venture in Nebraska.
"I thought, now that's an economic development idea for our area," he said. "We went to Nebraska and met with the Omahas and looked at their cigarette factory." Although the Seneca-Cayugas' finance committee wanted to proceed with the plan, the tribe could not afford the cost, so Spicer created a limited liability corporation with three other management partners. The factory now offers "some of the highest paying jobs in the two-county area," he said proudly.
Would the Seneca-Cayugas consider developing some type of light industry appropriate to the Ulster County area in place of a casino since the tribe has experience with business ventures apart from gaming? If the tribe were going to expand in that direction, it would be more likely to do so in Oklahoma where its base is located, said the chief.
"Casinos are a high-margin business," Spicer said of the tribe's interest in gaming. "There is a very low failure rate. Casinos flourish everywhere in the world ... It's a pretty stable business and it is a business. It's part of the entertainment business and it's growing by leaps and bounds."
In late June, the Second Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals denied the Cayuga and Seneca-Cayuga land claim, ruling New York state would not have to pay the tribes' $248 million claim in a 25-year-old lawsuit involving 64,000 acres of land in Cayuga and a neighboring county. The court has refused to review its decision; the tribes will now appeal their cases to the U.S. Supreme Court. Martin Gold, the New York City-based attorney for the Cayuga Indian Nation, said recently that the tribe would seek a reversal by the High Court.
The only gaming avenue apart from a land claim available to the tribe would be a loophole in the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (IGRA) of 1988, which permits tribes to build casinos on land acquired since the legislation's passage if the U.S. Secretary of the Interior, who oversees the Bureau of Indian Affairs, deems the casino would be in the best interests of both the community and the tribe. The tribe would also require approval by the state legislature and Congress.
"If it were easy, anybody would do it," said Spicer of the challenges that lie ahead. "Land claim or no land claim, it's important to have a working relationship with the community. That is more durable. It's not like we are a destitute people. We are a pretty wealthy people compared with other ethnic groups and other tribes, but we do have the ability to build something [in Ulster County] with the local community where we both could grow."
After 22 years in the Air Force, from which he retired as a senior master sergeant in 1988, Spicer went to Saudi Arabia to work for the Saudi Air Force through Lockheed Martin. He returned to Saudi Arabia in the same capacity during the first Gulf War. He launched a freight trucking brokerage with the money he earned in the Middle East. Spicer sold that business after nine years and began a cigarette plant. He has since sold his interest in that business and is devoting his time to his tribe, he said.
"We want to go somewhere where we can be a true partner with the community, where it is a win-win situation for both the tribe and the community," said Spicer. "That is primarily the reason we would like to build a casino [in Ulster County]."

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